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[Music]

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hello and welcome to episode number 73

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of the point of convergence podcast as

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always I am your host EXO academian

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as many of you may know I recently had

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the opportunity to make a presentation

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at a very unique and Powerful Conference

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held in the heart of Manhattan titled an

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inquiry into anomalous experiences and

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the phenomenon

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the event turned out to be a smashing

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success both in terms of the inspiring

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quality of their presentations being

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made by a group of speakers that

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included Yours Truly Gary Nolan Mitch

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Horowitz Tim grieve Carlson and Sean

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esborn hargens but also just as if not

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more importantly in terms of linking

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together a group of passionate

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researchers experiencers and enthusiasts

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from all around the world

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that feeling of a cosmic family coming

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together was palpable throughout

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the organizers of the event James

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iandoli of engaging the phenomenon and J

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Christopher King of the experiencers

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group both good friends of mine did a

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wonderful job in planning for and

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executing this unique event

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in the end I would say the event came

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off without a hitch

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a great time was had by all and even

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more inspiringly there is already a

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second event planned for December and

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Rumblings of other events of a similar

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nature to be held in places all across

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the country and indeed overseas as well

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I think this is exactly what many of us

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involved in the conference were hoping

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would happen that this would be the

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Catalyst for a movement rather than just

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a hosting of a one-off event

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speaking of my presentation at last

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weekend's event in New York City the

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event organizers have been kind enough

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to make the audio content of my

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presentation available so I can now

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share it with all of you my regular

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audience on point of convergence

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much of the material will be familiar to

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many of you based on previous podcast

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episodes that said this probably marks

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the occasion when I put it all together

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in the most comprehensive overarching

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way yet in terms of the implications for

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the ultimate nature of reality

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and with that said let's get to it here

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is the audio from my presentation at the

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an inquiry into anomalous experiences

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and the phenomenon Conference held last

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week in Manhattan for this the 73rd

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episode of the point of convergence

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[Music]

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so first thing I like to say is what we

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colloquially call the UFO phenomenon I

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actually see is an amalgam of different

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kinds of groups and different kinds of

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phenomena

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so while some people tend to want to say

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this is one thing and perhaps it's uh

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just manifesting differently that's been

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a common thinking about this I see it as

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likely different groups

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um with different agendas sometimes even

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groups that are quite similar but still

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have different agendas just like human

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beings there's there's complexity there

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and quite different origin sources as

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well I would say so that really opens up

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the aperture you know between

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ET interdimensional uh extra tempestral

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crypto terrestrial ultra-terrestrial it

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goes on and on

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but I think also those terms sort of fit

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with how we understand reality right now

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and I think a lot of the times uh this

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will collapse and transcend into

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something deeper that kind of uh undoes

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some of our conventional thinking about

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what might be going on

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and I think I'd say too is that I think

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one thing this this phenomenon does is

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it teaches us how little we understand

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about reality that there are some people

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who are pretty confident that we

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understand what reality is and this is

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sort of we're just looking for the

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cherry on top to understand the UFO

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phenomenon and anomalous phenomena in

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general

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but I think that's actually not the case

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I think when we have that bias that we

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are almost there we tend to think

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there's probably just one more thing we

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need to tweak in the model whereas I

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think it's actually much more

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deep-seated than that and multi-faceted

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and me actually end up reworking our

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entire understanding of reality

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another thing I'd say about uh the way

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we talk about the phenomenon and UFOs is

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it because it's not recognized as a

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conventional sort of field of inquiry

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what ends up happening is you have a lot

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of armchair enthusiasts who adopt their

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favorite Paradigm uh their favorite

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hypothesis about what this is about

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which is fine and that's fun and like

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Kelly said I think that the questions

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are fascinating and to me I just enjoy

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the the adventure the grand mystery that

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we're all trying to solve

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um but that said I think one of the

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challenges with the fact that this is an

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armchair Enthusiast kind of endeavor is

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that we we don't have any kind of

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mathematical Precision about how we talk

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about these things and so what ends up

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happening is a human bias which is

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inevitable uh ends up filtering in and

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so people tend to just adopt whatever

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hypothesis they prefer to be the case

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and that's one of the things that's

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great about science and I'm very Pro

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science even though I recognize some of

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the conventional thinking with with

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metaphysics uh the assumptions don't go

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far enough

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but at least with science you have

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Precision so you can actually make

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predictions you can follow through see

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if that comes through or not to uh to

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justify your hypothesis to confirm your

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hypothesis or to perhaps open up new

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avenues of uh inquiry

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another thing I would say is that and

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again I'm saying this knowing that

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there's probably quite a few

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experiencers here in the group I myself

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I'm an experiencer and I know that I

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have a very solid sort of Left Brain

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critical mind in terms of thinking about

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these matters but I know that personally

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when you've had experiences it

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completely changes things beyond the

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hypothetical so I would say that

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experience for Testimony is really

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essential for this topic and if you

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notice the mainstream media coverage of

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this topic which you'll find really

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really lacking is there's no discussion

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of that you'll see the same you know

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Nimitz videos and whatnot Tic Tacs and

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whatnot discussed Ad nauseam and you'll

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see those same few Clips over and over

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again in all sorts of different news

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media

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but no one's actually going out and

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trying to interview experiencers that

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happens to some degree on podcasts and

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whatnot amongst those who are kind of

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Hardcore followers of this topic but in

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the mainstream media it's still not

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discussed

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but I would say that of that the thing

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is when you're looking just at what you

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can see in the sky that's exciting and

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everything and you have kind of the

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spectacle of that but that doesn't tell

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you who it is and why they're here and

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with experience for Testimony that's

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exactly what we get and what's very very

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interesting is how much overlap there is

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between experience for accounts even

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cross-culturally and over time so this

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says there's something really going on

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there and messages that I think we

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should pay attention to

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so I would say that that's a really

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important key that we need to pay

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attention to experience for accounts

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that's perhaps our most important data

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set at this point

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another thing I would say is that this

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is a pretty comprehensive topic some

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people want to reduce it to UFOs and

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aliens but Kelly said I I look at it in

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a more multi-faceted way there's UFOs

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there's aliens there's other kinds of

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non-human intelligence there's

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near-death experiences out of body

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experiences you know PSI phenomena

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telekinesis telepathy precognition all

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of this factors in and what's very

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interesting that makes you go hmm what's

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that about what we also see in the data

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and this was confirmed in the free study

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that was done a few years ago is if

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you've experienced any one of those

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phenomena I just mentioned you're much

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more likely than an average person from

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the population to experience others as

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well which begs the question is there

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something about these people from birth

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that makes them innately sort of

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pre-wired to have these kind of

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experiences or did one Experience open

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something or maybe even flip a switch

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that's dormant in all of us that made us

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made these people more open to having

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these experiences again

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another topic I wanted to quickly

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address was why it is that we have these

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alien groups supposedly

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encountering and giving messages to just

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random people so they're not showing up

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to famous people they're not showing up

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to presidents and prime ministers famous

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scientists they tend to show up to your

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average person it could be anywhere

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around the world and they usually

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impress upon these people that you

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really need to get the message out

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which which begs the question if your

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agenda is to get the message out why are

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you focusing on these people that no one

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knows and they themselves say why me

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like nobody knows me what am I going to

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do I mean I can maybe write a book and

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put on Amazon and maybe 10 people will

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buy it but how is that going to move

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this forward

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and I thought a lot about that and uh

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one of the things I try to do in in

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looking into this phenomena is pull in

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other data sets from elsewhere other

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research that's being done and see how

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this apply here

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and and Rupert sheldrake's done some

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really interesting research

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where he's seen in what he calls

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morphogenetic Fields where uh certain

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kinds of inheritance happen even without

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genetics so for instance what happened

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was there was a group of rats that I

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think were in the UK somewhere in Europe

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and they were trained on this Maze and

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they learned to do the maze better and

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better until they actually became pretty

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proficient at it

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now what's interesting is they went to

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Australia and had a different group of

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rats that obviously were not related to

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that first group of rats and they

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actually learned the maze more quickly

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than the group in the UK much more

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quickly as if they were actually

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accessing some sort of collective

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unconscious that that there's some sort

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of memory bank that a species can pull

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from and Carl Jung talked about this as

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well in terms of the collective

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unconscious

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and so I'm suggesting that perhaps even

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why on the superficially it looks like

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what's really happening when they go and

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you know contact random people what

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difference is that going to make what

279
00:10:40,490 --> 00:10:37,860
that does is it seeds in our Collective

280
00:10:42,949 --> 00:10:40,500
unconscious this deep-seated knowledge

281
00:10:45,050 --> 00:10:42,959
about these others in our midst and then

282
00:10:47,630 --> 00:10:45,060
slowly more and more of us can pull from

283
00:10:50,150 --> 00:10:47,640
that Collective memory

284
00:10:52,850 --> 00:10:50,160
now if any of you have studied the the

285
00:10:55,430 --> 00:10:52,860
phenomenon in any detail you will have

286
00:10:58,790 --> 00:10:55,440
come across the figure of Jacques filet

287
00:11:01,730 --> 00:10:58,800
he's my favorite researcher because he

288
00:11:04,250 --> 00:11:01,740
has been a Trailblazer and he was always

289
00:11:06,470 --> 00:11:04,260
sort of ahead of the curve and so he

290
00:11:09,230 --> 00:11:06,480
began believing in the eth the

291
00:11:11,690 --> 00:11:09,240
Extraterrestrial hypothesis but moved

292
00:11:13,910 --> 00:11:11,700
beyond that pretty quickly Based on data

293
00:11:17,030 --> 00:11:13,920
and based on on the ground research that

294
00:11:19,490 --> 00:11:17,040
he was doing so as we quickly go through

295
00:11:21,470 --> 00:11:19,500
sort of the history of ufology in the

296
00:11:23,870 --> 00:11:21,480
20th century going into the 21st century

297
00:11:26,449 --> 00:11:23,880
it very much follows the thinking and

298
00:11:28,490 --> 00:11:26,459
the progression of Jacques valet who uh

299
00:11:30,050 --> 00:11:28,500
really steered the the charge even

300
00:11:31,910 --> 00:11:30,060
though a lot of people were behind him

301
00:11:34,370 --> 00:11:31,920
and sometimes it was 10 or 20 years

302
00:11:35,990 --> 00:11:34,380
later that people kind of caught up

303
00:11:37,970 --> 00:11:36,000
when he first brought to people's

304
00:11:40,490 --> 00:11:37,980
attention through passport to Magonia

305
00:11:42,949 --> 00:11:40,500
and books like that that some of this

306
00:11:45,470 --> 00:11:42,959
mirrors interactions that we being had

307
00:11:47,329 --> 00:11:45,480
with non-human intelligence going way

308
00:11:49,730 --> 00:11:47,339
back into history pretty much as long as

309
00:11:52,730 --> 00:11:49,740
humankind has been around many people

310
00:11:54,470 --> 00:11:52,740
especially in ufology uh dismissed that

311
00:11:56,870 --> 00:11:54,480
and said listen we're talking about UFOs

312
00:11:58,250 --> 00:11:56,880
and aliens don't talk about the Fate you

313
00:12:00,949 --> 00:11:58,260
know or fairy lore or that kind of thing

314
00:12:02,870 --> 00:12:00,959
it's a different thing but valet just

315
00:12:04,910 --> 00:12:02,880
looked at it objectively and said the

316
00:12:06,710 --> 00:12:04,920
data looks very very similar especially

317
00:12:09,170 --> 00:12:06,720
once you get Beyond this superficial

318
00:12:10,790 --> 00:12:09,180
level maybe the way that the culture was

319
00:12:13,430 --> 00:12:10,800
describing it in a certain way using

320
00:12:16,069 --> 00:12:13,440
certain vocabulary but underlyingly it's

321
00:12:19,069 --> 00:12:16,079
very very similar

322
00:12:20,810 --> 00:12:19,079
so when we began with the eth it's very

323
00:12:22,730 --> 00:12:20,820
much because that was the final frontier

324
00:12:23,930 --> 00:12:22,740
so I think now we have more

325
00:12:26,810 --> 00:12:23,940
understanding when you think about

326
00:12:28,490 --> 00:12:26,820
multiple dimensions and whatnot that

327
00:12:30,050 --> 00:12:28,500
there could be other ways that these

328
00:12:33,050 --> 00:12:30,060
these beings could be coming into our

329
00:12:35,389 --> 00:12:33,060
midst but back in the 20th century early

330
00:12:37,430 --> 00:12:35,399
to mid part of the 20th century

331
00:12:39,769 --> 00:12:37,440
if you think about it that was really

332
00:12:42,769 --> 00:12:39,779
the only Frontier we assumed we had not

333
00:12:44,329 --> 00:12:42,779
chartered yet so when crafts showed up

334
00:12:45,889 --> 00:12:44,339
in the sky are what looked like crafts

335
00:12:47,990 --> 00:12:45,899
sometimes it's more like phenomena like

336
00:12:50,569 --> 00:12:48,000
light phenomena but when that showed up

337
00:12:53,030 --> 00:12:50,579
in the sky people assumed that this has

338
00:12:54,889 --> 00:12:53,040
got to be aliens from Venus or Mars that

339
00:12:56,629 --> 00:12:54,899
was the initial thinking and then

340
00:12:58,550 --> 00:12:56,639
eventually that sort of went out further

341
00:13:01,069 --> 00:12:58,560
and further into the cosmos once we

342
00:13:03,230 --> 00:13:01,079
recognized the approbes and whatnot that

343
00:13:06,230 --> 00:13:03,240
we had sent to these planets that they

344
00:13:08,569 --> 00:13:06,240
seemed largely Barren and lifeless but

345
00:13:10,550 --> 00:13:08,579
initially that was the eth was the sense

346
00:13:12,769 --> 00:13:10,560
that it makes sense that there's these

347
00:13:14,690 --> 00:13:12,779
others they're non-human we're seeing

348
00:13:17,150 --> 00:13:14,700
craft that are so sophisticated that

349
00:13:18,290 --> 00:13:17,160
they can't be the product of any nation

350
00:13:20,210 --> 00:13:18,300
state

351
00:13:23,030 --> 00:13:20,220
that the Assumption was they must be

352
00:13:25,670 --> 00:13:23,040
extraterrestrial but we do not stop

353
00:13:27,949 --> 00:13:25,680
there as we will soon find out

354
00:13:30,949 --> 00:13:27,959
now another part of the experiencer

355
00:13:32,690 --> 00:13:30,959
accounts that is tricky and I think it's

356
00:13:35,090 --> 00:13:32,700
going to be tricky for quite some time

357
00:13:36,949 --> 00:13:35,100
in terms of the conventional narrative

358
00:13:38,930 --> 00:13:36,959
or the conventional mainstream media

359
00:13:40,610 --> 00:13:38,940
accepting it your your neighbors

360
00:13:43,850 --> 00:13:40,620
accepting it that are not into this kind

361
00:13:45,710 --> 00:13:43,860
of thing is how these experiences often

362
00:13:48,350 --> 00:13:45,720
seem to happen in an altered state of

363
00:13:51,170 --> 00:13:48,360
consciousness or an alternate realm

364
00:13:53,090 --> 00:13:51,180
which leads some people to say well then

365
00:13:54,829 --> 00:13:53,100
is it really real at all are these

366
00:13:56,449 --> 00:13:54,839
people just delusional or is it any

367
00:13:58,730 --> 00:13:56,459
different than a dream

368
00:14:01,790 --> 00:13:58,740
I think what the evidence suggests is

369
00:14:03,650 --> 00:14:01,800
that reality is much more complex than

370
00:14:05,690 --> 00:14:03,660
we think and it's our bias and our

371
00:14:08,150 --> 00:14:05,700
prejudice that makes us think that our

372
00:14:10,790 --> 00:14:08,160
normal waking state is the only thing

373
00:14:13,009 --> 00:14:10,800
that should count as reality so while

374
00:14:14,629 --> 00:14:13,019
these are happening often in an altered

375
00:14:16,730 --> 00:14:14,639
state of consciousness or alternate

376
00:14:18,110 --> 00:14:16,740
Realms that doesn't mean they're any

377
00:14:19,490 --> 00:14:18,120
less real

378
00:14:20,509 --> 00:14:19,500
and as I was talking to a friend

379
00:14:22,550 --> 00:14:20,519
yesterday

380
00:14:25,310 --> 00:14:22,560
there are times where people are

381
00:14:27,590 --> 00:14:25,320
experienced abductions or contact where

382
00:14:29,870 --> 00:14:27,600
they are on board a craft and their body

383
00:14:31,670 --> 00:14:29,880
is physically gone right and their

384
00:14:34,430 --> 00:14:31,680
spouse or something or a family member

385
00:14:35,870 --> 00:14:34,440
can can confirm after the fact that they

386
00:14:38,030 --> 00:14:35,880
were no longer in their bed so their

387
00:14:41,150 --> 00:14:38,040
entire body was taken

388
00:14:42,829 --> 00:14:41,160
other times they'll be sort of laying

389
00:14:45,170 --> 00:14:42,839
dormant and the person can't wake them

390
00:14:47,569 --> 00:14:45,180
up the next morning they have all the

391
00:14:48,829 --> 00:14:47,579
signs of having been abducted in those

392
00:14:50,329 --> 00:14:48,839
cases often it's just their

393
00:14:52,910 --> 00:14:50,339
Consciousness that was taken not their

394
00:14:54,470 --> 00:14:52,920
actual body so again you can see how the

395
00:14:57,949 --> 00:14:54,480
mainstream that's going to be very very

396
00:15:00,470 --> 00:14:57,959
difficult to reconcile

397
00:15:02,389 --> 00:15:00,480
now when we think back to jail and

398
00:15:03,410 --> 00:15:02,399
heineck and Jacques Valley and people

399
00:15:06,230 --> 00:15:03,420
like that

400
00:15:06,889 --> 00:15:06,240
they quickly moved beyond the eth as I

401
00:15:09,410 --> 00:15:06,899
said

402
00:15:11,870 --> 00:15:09,420
and this was basically because of the

403
00:15:13,730 --> 00:15:11,880
data and again to Jacques valet's credit

404
00:15:16,189 --> 00:15:13,740
that's what he tends to do he looks at

405
00:15:18,290 --> 00:15:16,199
the data opens the aperture tries to

406
00:15:21,230 --> 00:15:18,300
consider historical data other kinds of

407
00:15:23,750 --> 00:15:21,240
data with anomalous phenomena and say

408
00:15:25,610 --> 00:15:23,760
how can it be related what assumptions

409
00:15:29,269 --> 00:15:25,620
are we making about this being aliens

410
00:15:32,030 --> 00:15:29,279
and UFOs that makes us miss the mark

411
00:15:34,910 --> 00:15:32,040
and what I would also say is that our

412
00:15:37,730 --> 00:15:34,920
Notions of what what this is what this

413
00:15:39,949 --> 00:15:37,740
could be has very much been in lockstep

414
00:15:41,509 --> 00:15:39,959
with our understanding of what what the

415
00:15:44,150 --> 00:15:41,519
possibilities are coming out of physics

416
00:15:46,310 --> 00:15:44,160
and whatnot so when we had the notion of

417
00:15:48,889 --> 00:15:46,320
the Multiverse come out in the 20th

418
00:15:51,050 --> 00:15:48,899
century this idea that because of

419
00:15:52,910 --> 00:15:51,060
quantum States and whatnot how you have

420
00:15:53,990 --> 00:15:52,920
multiple universes being born all the

421
00:15:55,490 --> 00:15:54,000
time

422
00:15:56,990 --> 00:15:55,500
but we're still within that physical

423
00:16:00,590 --> 00:15:57,000
reality you used to have multiple

424
00:16:02,449 --> 00:16:00,600
universes within a Multiverse then the

425
00:16:04,009 --> 00:16:02,459
notion was well maybe that explains

426
00:16:06,170 --> 00:16:04,019
what's going on with these UFOs and

427
00:16:08,870 --> 00:16:06,180
these aliens and that's partly because

428
00:16:11,750 --> 00:16:08,880
they tend to just pop into our existence

429
00:16:14,269 --> 00:16:11,760
and then pop back out we don't often

430
00:16:16,189 --> 00:16:14,279
hear cases where they say you know from

431
00:16:17,569 --> 00:16:16,199
Saturn we've spotted a Mothership and

432
00:16:19,310 --> 00:16:17,579
it's coming all the way to Earth and now

433
00:16:20,629 --> 00:16:19,320
it's you know it's orbiting the moon or

434
00:16:22,670 --> 00:16:20,639
orbiting the Earth or something and

435
00:16:24,949 --> 00:16:22,680
they're sending Scout craft down to the

436
00:16:26,750 --> 00:16:24,959
Earth we don't usually hear that which

437
00:16:28,670 --> 00:16:26,760
is kind of what you would expect from

438
00:16:29,990 --> 00:16:28,680
the standard sort of sci-fi

439
00:16:32,689 --> 00:16:30,000
understanding of what an

440
00:16:34,910 --> 00:16:32,699
extraterrestrial group would be doing

441
00:16:37,370 --> 00:16:34,920
instead we have groups that can either

442
00:16:38,870 --> 00:16:37,380
just pop into the sky and we're not even

443
00:16:41,509 --> 00:16:38,880
sure if what we're seeing is a techno

444
00:16:43,009 --> 00:16:41,519
signature that's the leftover residue of

445
00:16:45,829 --> 00:16:43,019
what's actually going on there because

446
00:16:47,269 --> 00:16:45,839
space time itself gets distorted they

447
00:16:49,790 --> 00:16:47,279
can do that and they just pop out again

448
00:16:51,230 --> 00:16:49,800
just as easily they can also pop into

449
00:16:53,689 --> 00:16:51,240
your bedroom and there's nothing you can

450
00:16:55,490 --> 00:16:53,699
do to stop it locks and walls and

451
00:16:56,930 --> 00:16:55,500
putting troops outside wouldn't make any

452
00:16:58,670 --> 00:16:56,940
difference they can just put the troops

453
00:17:00,829 --> 00:16:58,680
to sleep if they need to

454
00:17:02,870 --> 00:17:00,839
another part of the and I'm going to get

455
00:17:04,429 --> 00:17:02,880
to in a second how we can make sense of

456
00:17:06,169 --> 00:17:04,439
all this how we might be able to because

457
00:17:07,850 --> 00:17:06,179
I think there's actually some some

458
00:17:09,829 --> 00:17:07,860
evidence coming out of different fields

459
00:17:12,590 --> 00:17:09,839
of inquiry outside of this phenomena

460
00:17:14,390 --> 00:17:12,600
that give us some Clues but another

461
00:17:17,390 --> 00:17:14,400
thing we have to take into account is

462
00:17:20,449 --> 00:17:17,400
the the absurdity and the weirdness that

463
00:17:21,650 --> 00:17:20,459
is associated with this phenomena I

464
00:17:24,110 --> 00:17:21,660
already mentioned how we get the

465
00:17:26,210 --> 00:17:24,120
space-time distortions you know there's

466
00:17:28,130 --> 00:17:26,220
there's situations where

467
00:17:31,430 --> 00:17:28,140
I think even for the kids in Zimbabwe

468
00:17:32,990 --> 00:17:31,440
this happened where you have beings that

469
00:17:34,490 --> 00:17:33,000
seem to walk across the field and

470
00:17:35,930 --> 00:17:34,500
sometimes they don't even not quite on

471
00:17:37,669 --> 00:17:35,940
the ground they're floating just above

472
00:17:39,470 --> 00:17:37,679
but there's one point where they

473
00:17:40,909 --> 00:17:39,480
reported they saw them sort of walking

474
00:17:42,950 --> 00:17:40,919
across and they jumped back and were

475
00:17:44,330 --> 00:17:42,960
walking across again almost like we're

476
00:17:46,250 --> 00:17:44,340
having some sort of distortion of

477
00:17:48,770 --> 00:17:46,260
space-time and that's that's rendering

478
00:17:50,450 --> 00:17:48,780
really strangely for us and that part

479
00:17:53,029 --> 00:17:50,460
will I'll come back to again and again

480
00:17:54,830 --> 00:17:53,039
because how things render as opposed to

481
00:17:56,870 --> 00:17:54,840
how they actually are is pretty pretty

482
00:17:59,150 --> 00:17:56,880
Central

483
00:18:01,430 --> 00:17:59,160
another thing they can do is is send

484
00:18:03,350 --> 00:18:01,440
telepathic commands which makes it

485
00:18:05,450 --> 00:18:03,360
pretty much impossible for us to resist

486
00:18:07,010 --> 00:18:05,460
that's not always to say that that's a

487
00:18:08,390 --> 00:18:07,020
bad thing I think some people as soon as

488
00:18:10,070 --> 00:18:08,400
they hear that they say well this must

489
00:18:12,230 --> 00:18:10,080
be evil aliens and they're just trying

490
00:18:14,150 --> 00:18:12,240
to control us and this is all sort of a

491
00:18:16,490 --> 00:18:14,160
set up for some sort of invasion or

492
00:18:17,750 --> 00:18:16,500
something which I think is kind of silly

493
00:18:19,549 --> 00:18:17,760
if they were going to invade they could

494
00:18:21,230 --> 00:18:19,559
have done that long ago and and pretty

495
00:18:23,210 --> 00:18:21,240
simply based on their technological

496
00:18:25,370 --> 00:18:23,220
advantage

497
00:18:27,650 --> 00:18:25,380
but they can say to people that are

498
00:18:29,690 --> 00:18:27,660
driving along the highway they turn into

499
00:18:32,210 --> 00:18:29,700
the woods here drive you know through

500
00:18:34,549 --> 00:18:32,220
that field and uh then they'll just get

501
00:18:36,470 --> 00:18:34,559
up on a craft and as a recent case that

502
00:18:37,430 --> 00:18:36,480
I studied on on point of convergence and

503
00:18:39,230 --> 00:18:37,440
talked about

504
00:18:41,210 --> 00:18:39,240
people will just hear in their heads

505
00:18:44,029 --> 00:18:41,220
walk into the second room on the right

506
00:18:46,190 --> 00:18:44,039
and get up on the table and then there's

507
00:18:47,870 --> 00:18:46,200
going to be some sort of examination and

508
00:18:49,730 --> 00:18:47,880
when when someone who's giving them a

509
00:18:51,230 --> 00:18:49,740
hypnotic regression says

510
00:18:52,430 --> 00:18:51,240
why are you doing that why are you

511
00:18:54,650 --> 00:18:52,440
walking into that room and getting on

512
00:18:56,450 --> 00:18:54,660
the table they're just as surprised as

513
00:18:57,770 --> 00:18:56,460
the as the regressionist saying I don't

514
00:18:59,930 --> 00:18:57,780
know I'm just getting up on the table oh

515
00:19:01,010 --> 00:18:59,940
because they told me that's why what do

516
00:19:03,289 --> 00:19:01,020
they look like I don't know I haven't

517
00:19:05,870 --> 00:19:03,299
seen them yet right that sometimes

518
00:19:08,150 --> 00:19:05,880
happens and we see a swift shift in

519
00:19:09,890 --> 00:19:08,160
terms of mood as well so they can

520
00:19:11,930 --> 00:19:09,900
control our mood if they sense that

521
00:19:13,789 --> 00:19:11,940
we're getting overwhelmed they can

522
00:19:16,730 --> 00:19:13,799
quickly calm us down that kind of thing

523
00:19:19,070 --> 00:19:16,740
and I just want to again reiterate

524
00:19:21,049 --> 00:19:19,080
because I say this a lot as a disclaimer

525
00:19:22,610 --> 00:19:21,059
on point of convergence

526
00:19:24,409 --> 00:19:22,620
that again I think there's multiple

527
00:19:26,510 --> 00:19:24,419
groups so I'm sort of speaking in Broad

528
00:19:28,850 --> 00:19:26,520
Strokes here partly in the interest of

529
00:19:30,590 --> 00:19:28,860
time but just remember that so I'm not

530
00:19:32,270 --> 00:19:30,600
saying there's one phenomenon and one

531
00:19:34,190 --> 00:19:32,280
group I'm just talking about some broad

532
00:19:37,190 --> 00:19:34,200
Strokes that we tend to see

533
00:19:39,830 --> 00:19:37,200
now some people think about the criteria

534
00:19:41,690 --> 00:19:39,840
what we see what the phenomena tends to

535
00:19:45,289 --> 00:19:41,700
show up as

536
00:19:46,909 --> 00:19:45,299
and again along this line of as we've

537
00:19:49,010 --> 00:19:46,919
developed technologically and we've

538
00:19:50,990 --> 00:19:49,020
developed new Notions of reality and

539
00:19:52,909 --> 00:19:51,000
physics and whatnot we tend to follow

540
00:19:55,549 --> 00:19:52,919
that whatever our latest thing is we go

541
00:19:57,529 --> 00:19:55,559
ah must be that that's what they are so

542
00:19:59,990 --> 00:19:57,539
with the Advent of virtual reality

543
00:20:01,310 --> 00:20:00,000
suddenly people started saying aha

544
00:20:03,529 --> 00:20:01,320
that's what they must be they must be

545
00:20:05,029 --> 00:20:03,539
virtual reality displays and I think we

546
00:20:07,490 --> 00:20:05,039
have to be very very careful of that

547
00:20:09,890 --> 00:20:07,500
it's highly unlikely that whatever just

548
00:20:12,409 --> 00:20:09,900
happens to be our latest technological

549
00:20:14,990 --> 00:20:12,419
innovation is the answer that seems very

550
00:20:16,549 --> 00:20:15,000
unlikely and some of these groups based

551
00:20:18,830 --> 00:20:16,559
on the age of the cosmos might have been

552
00:20:21,529 --> 00:20:18,840
around for millions or billions of years

553
00:20:23,510 --> 00:20:21,539
longer than us so the chances when you

554
00:20:26,510 --> 00:20:23,520
think about it of it just lining up with

555
00:20:28,490 --> 00:20:26,520
our latest Innovation is not very likely

556
00:20:30,470 --> 00:20:28,500
so for instance some people will say

557
00:20:32,750 --> 00:20:30,480
well we see shape shifting in the sky

558
00:20:35,270 --> 00:20:32,760
sometimes so that suggests to me that

559
00:20:36,770 --> 00:20:35,280
they're actually not really there is

560
00:20:38,990 --> 00:20:36,780
craft a more like virtual reality

561
00:20:41,150 --> 00:20:39,000
displays like Holograms that are being

562
00:20:43,430 --> 00:20:41,160
shown in the sky and perhaps they even

563
00:20:46,010 --> 00:20:43,440
beam it into the minds of experiencers

564
00:20:47,690 --> 00:20:46,020
because you could have three people one

565
00:20:49,190 --> 00:20:47,700
person will see it maybe even two people

566
00:20:50,990 --> 00:20:49,200
will see it and the other person will

567
00:20:52,730 --> 00:20:51,000
not see it right

568
00:20:55,070 --> 00:20:52,740
but I don't think it's that simple

569
00:20:56,990 --> 00:20:55,080
either as complex as that is that they

570
00:20:59,330 --> 00:20:57,000
can already beam virtual reality

571
00:21:01,789 --> 00:20:59,340
displays into our minds or into the

572
00:21:04,010 --> 00:21:01,799
individual minds of certain people I

573
00:21:06,710 --> 00:21:04,020
don't think that even goes far enough

574
00:21:08,570 --> 00:21:06,720
in the case of Dorothy ISAT she would

575
00:21:10,549 --> 00:21:08,580
use a certain video camera and be able

576
00:21:11,450 --> 00:21:10,559
to film stuff in the sky that was going

577
00:21:14,090 --> 00:21:11,460
on

578
00:21:16,070 --> 00:21:14,100
would use that video camera and they

579
00:21:17,810 --> 00:21:16,080
could not capture the same thing with

580
00:21:20,450 --> 00:21:17,820
the same video camera so that again

581
00:21:22,370 --> 00:21:20,460
shows you it's not even just in the mind

582
00:21:25,430 --> 00:21:22,380
it's almost like a kind of entanglement

583
00:21:27,049 --> 00:21:25,440
with that person but as I carry on here

584
00:21:29,210 --> 00:21:27,059
I'll say I don't think even entanglement

585
00:21:31,370 --> 00:21:29,220
fully gets to it because that's sort of

586
00:21:32,990 --> 00:21:31,380
again our latest understanding and I

587
00:21:34,970 --> 00:21:33,000
think even Cutting Edge physics goes

588
00:21:37,310 --> 00:21:34,980
beyond that

589
00:21:39,110 --> 00:21:37,320
so as we think about this we think about

590
00:21:41,029 --> 00:21:39,120
we went from the Extraterrestrial

591
00:21:44,029 --> 00:21:41,039
hypothesis to the interdimensional

592
00:21:46,190 --> 00:21:44,039
hypothesis right which again followed

593
00:21:47,870 --> 00:21:46,200
this trend in physics when we had the

594
00:21:50,149 --> 00:21:47,880
idea of a Multiverse and multiple

595
00:21:52,070 --> 00:21:50,159
universes existing within the Multiverse

596
00:21:54,110 --> 00:21:52,080
we thought perhaps that's what's going

597
00:21:55,970 --> 00:21:54,120
on they're just popping in and popping

598
00:21:56,990 --> 00:21:55,980
out of our existence and that explains

599
00:22:00,529 --> 00:21:57,000
it

600
00:22:03,590 --> 00:22:00,539
that's still the notion of a physical

601
00:22:05,090 --> 00:22:03,600
reality still space time and it doesn't

602
00:22:06,950 --> 00:22:05,100
explain all the other things we talked

603
00:22:08,330 --> 00:22:06,960
about the way they can control our

604
00:22:11,210 --> 00:22:08,340
Consciousness the way they can control

605
00:22:13,430 --> 00:22:11,220
our moods the way they can control our

606
00:22:15,649 --> 00:22:13,440
memory right green memories are a huge

607
00:22:17,750 --> 00:22:15,659
part of what goes on here again some

608
00:22:19,990 --> 00:22:17,760
people are very suspicious of that

609
00:22:22,190 --> 00:22:20,000
but as I pointed out on a recent episode

610
00:22:24,350 --> 00:22:22,200
sometimes they do that because we

611
00:22:27,110 --> 00:22:24,360
respond with abject Terror when we see

612
00:22:28,669 --> 00:22:27,120
what they actually look like so while we

613
00:22:30,350 --> 00:22:28,679
are frustrated again speaking of broad

614
00:22:32,149 --> 00:22:30,360
Strokes with some of the ways they treat

615
00:22:34,610 --> 00:22:32,159
us and maybe don't tell us the full

616
00:22:36,770 --> 00:22:34,620
story on the other hand sometimes we do

617
00:22:39,110 --> 00:22:36,780
respond like frightened animals

618
00:22:41,870 --> 00:22:39,120
that's not to put us down uh it's a very

619
00:22:43,789 --> 00:22:41,880
shocking event one thing that's really

620
00:22:46,669 --> 00:22:43,799
clear in this is even if you end up

621
00:22:49,310 --> 00:22:46,679
having over time a positive view of an

622
00:22:51,770 --> 00:22:49,320
experience if you're a lifelong abductee

623
00:22:53,990 --> 00:22:51,780
or contactee and what term you use tends

624
00:22:57,169 --> 00:22:54,000
to depend on your your view of it

625
00:23:00,289 --> 00:22:57,179
but over time once the ontological shock

626
00:23:02,810 --> 00:23:00,299
Fades a little bit often people will see

627
00:23:05,570 --> 00:23:02,820
the experience as transformative and it

628
00:23:07,370 --> 00:23:05,580
opens up their minds about the universe

629
00:23:10,789 --> 00:23:07,380
about who they are even

630
00:23:13,130 --> 00:23:10,799
and this is another really key element I

631
00:23:15,710 --> 00:23:13,140
think in this phenomenon is that who we

632
00:23:18,710 --> 00:23:15,720
are is much more complex than we we give

633
00:23:21,830 --> 00:23:18,720
it credit for so again sometimes even

634
00:23:23,570 --> 00:23:21,840
the questions we choose to ask limit

635
00:23:25,610 --> 00:23:23,580
what the possibilities are right from

636
00:23:27,110 --> 00:23:25,620
the get-go and I don't think we can talk

637
00:23:29,029 --> 00:23:27,120
about this phenomenon without talking

638
00:23:32,270 --> 00:23:29,039
about who we are as well

639
00:23:34,130 --> 00:23:32,280
as you all know I'm sure one of the the

640
00:23:36,470 --> 00:23:34,140
narratives that comes up quite often is

641
00:23:38,750 --> 00:23:36,480
that people have signed Soul contracts

642
00:23:41,029 --> 00:23:38,760
in previous lifetimes and that's why

643
00:23:42,350 --> 00:23:41,039
they are being contacted again I

644
00:23:43,669 --> 00:23:42,360
understand all the complexity around

645
00:23:46,130 --> 00:23:43,679
that and some people will say that

646
00:23:48,250 --> 00:23:46,140
sounds like Stockholm syndrome and just

647
00:23:50,390 --> 00:23:48,260
sort of making up for these abductees

648
00:23:52,549 --> 00:23:50,400
experiences and maybe it's their way of

649
00:23:53,690 --> 00:23:52,559
trying to you know sugarcoat what's

650
00:23:55,970 --> 00:23:53,700
going on

651
00:23:58,310 --> 00:23:55,980
but I think that is part of it it is

652
00:24:00,350 --> 00:23:58,320
complex it isn't to say that the the

653
00:24:02,330 --> 00:24:00,360
graves or whatever get a get out of jail

654
00:24:04,789 --> 00:24:02,340
free car because of that that's the case

655
00:24:06,409 --> 00:24:04,799
it's still complex it may be that they

656
00:24:08,630 --> 00:24:06,419
just don't understand human nature well

657
00:24:11,330 --> 00:24:08,640
enough I think some of them have kind of

658
00:24:13,730 --> 00:24:11,340
a non-dual understanding of reality

659
00:24:16,850 --> 00:24:13,740
so that when they encounter us for very

660
00:24:19,549 --> 00:24:16,860
finite and individually focused they

661
00:24:20,930 --> 00:24:19,559
don't expect that response now again you

662
00:24:23,210 --> 00:24:20,940
might say they should learn this lesson

663
00:24:25,250 --> 00:24:23,220
over time seeing how we respond and

664
00:24:28,190 --> 00:24:25,260
that's a fair point

665
00:24:30,830 --> 00:24:28,200
so the question is with all the data we

666
00:24:34,250 --> 00:24:30,840
just talked about with moving beyond the

667
00:24:35,930 --> 00:24:34,260
eth moving beyond the the idh as well I

668
00:24:37,970 --> 00:24:35,940
think the interdimensional hypothesis

669
00:24:40,190 --> 00:24:37,980
still doesn't get us there it answers

670
00:24:43,070 --> 00:24:40,200
some of the questions potentially but

671
00:24:46,070 --> 00:24:43,080
not all of them so the question is are

672
00:24:48,590 --> 00:24:46,080
there other developments in other fields

673
00:24:51,710 --> 00:24:48,600
of inquiry in science that could give us

674
00:24:53,330 --> 00:24:51,720
Clues as to what's going on Beyond these

675
00:24:54,169 --> 00:24:53,340
hypotheses that have been proposed so

676
00:24:56,090 --> 00:24:54,179
far

677
00:24:59,510 --> 00:24:56,100
and I think there are

678
00:25:01,549 --> 00:24:59,520
I want to read a quote from Andre lindia

679
00:25:02,750 --> 00:25:01,559
who is a professor of physics at

680
00:25:05,029 --> 00:25:02,760
Stanford

681
00:25:06,890 --> 00:25:05,039
who says this and I want you to listen

682
00:25:09,710 --> 00:25:06,900
closely because a lot of this comes down

683
00:25:11,390 --> 00:25:09,720
to our assumptions about reality

684
00:25:13,310 --> 00:25:11,400
he says quote

685
00:25:16,490 --> 00:25:13,320
let us remember that our knowledge of

686
00:25:18,529 --> 00:25:16,500
the world begins not with matter but

687
00:25:20,510 --> 00:25:18,539
with perceptions

688
00:25:24,169 --> 00:25:20,520
later we find out that our perceptions

689
00:25:25,430 --> 00:25:24,179
obey some laws our perceptions obey some

690
00:25:31,909 --> 00:25:25,440
laws

691
00:25:34,490 --> 00:25:31,919
is so successful that we soon forget

692
00:25:36,830 --> 00:25:34,500
about our starting point

693
00:25:39,830 --> 00:25:36,840
so his point there is that we have

694
00:25:41,750 --> 00:25:39,840
perceptions and we can make an abstract

695
00:25:44,450 --> 00:25:41,760
argument about there being a physical

696
00:25:46,669 --> 00:25:44,460
world a material world apart from our

697
00:25:48,769 --> 00:25:46,679
perceptions but that's an abstraction

698
00:25:51,710 --> 00:25:48,779
there's nothing in science that could

699
00:25:53,930 --> 00:25:51,720
determine that's the case at that point

700
00:25:56,269 --> 00:25:53,940
and I want to read a quote from Bernardo

701
00:25:59,450 --> 00:25:56,279
Castro who's a Dutch philosopher

702
00:26:01,610 --> 00:25:59,460
who has a background as a physicalist he

703
00:26:03,769 --> 00:26:01,620
actually worked at CERN on the Large

704
00:26:05,990 --> 00:26:03,779
Hadron Collider so he began sort of at

705
00:26:09,350 --> 00:26:06,000
the heart of physicalism but as he began

706
00:26:11,690 --> 00:26:09,360
to work on AI he recognized that our

707
00:26:13,730 --> 00:26:11,700
notion of Consciousness was was off base

708
00:26:15,590 --> 00:26:13,740
and you couldn't actually produce AI

709
00:26:17,570 --> 00:26:15,600
with computers

710
00:26:19,909 --> 00:26:17,580
and he moved towards a metaphysical

711
00:26:21,289 --> 00:26:19,919
position like idealism instead of

712
00:26:24,350 --> 00:26:21,299
physicalism

713
00:26:26,990 --> 00:26:24,360
and he says this quote because all

714
00:26:29,269 --> 00:26:27,000
knowledge resides in Consciousness we

715
00:26:32,390 --> 00:26:29,279
cannot know what is supposedly outside

716
00:26:35,029 --> 00:26:32,400
Consciousness we can only infer it

717
00:26:36,350 --> 00:26:35,039
through our capacity for abstraction

718
00:26:39,049 --> 00:26:36,360
again

719
00:26:42,110 --> 00:26:39,059
it is enough that we find one coherent

720
00:26:45,470 --> 00:26:42,120
explanation for reality on the basis of

721
00:26:47,750 --> 00:26:45,480
excitations of Consciousness alone

722
00:26:49,130 --> 00:26:47,760
for a postulated Universe outside

723
00:26:51,890 --> 00:26:49,140
consciousness

724
00:26:52,970 --> 00:26:51,900
to become akin to the Flying Spaghetti

725
00:26:55,370 --> 00:26:52,980
Monster

726
00:26:57,230 --> 00:26:55,380
he's kind of making the point there that

727
00:27:00,169 --> 00:26:57,240
you can make that abstraction and say

728
00:27:02,149 --> 00:27:00,179
from our conscious awareness from our

729
00:27:03,769 --> 00:27:02,159
conscious experience we can say there's

730
00:27:05,930 --> 00:27:03,779
a material world apart from our

731
00:27:07,549 --> 00:27:05,940
conscious experience of it but there's

732
00:27:09,409 --> 00:27:07,559
no more evidence for that than there is

733
00:27:10,370 --> 00:27:09,419
of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is his

734
00:27:13,130 --> 00:27:10,380
point

735
00:27:15,590 --> 00:27:13,140
but again often what happens is if we

736
00:27:17,210 --> 00:27:15,600
all share the same reality right

737
00:27:19,549 --> 00:27:17,220
regardless of what this reality is

738
00:27:22,549 --> 00:27:19,559
ultimately composed of when we share the

739
00:27:24,230 --> 00:27:22,559
same reality and I knock my fist on this

740
00:27:26,810 --> 00:27:24,240
table and it makes a sound and I can

741
00:27:28,430 --> 00:27:26,820
feel it in my knuckle we assume that

742
00:27:29,810 --> 00:27:28,440
means that's real and that's apart from

743
00:27:32,269 --> 00:27:29,820
who I am

744
00:27:34,130 --> 00:27:32,279
now this is what really matters it comes

745
00:27:36,950 --> 00:27:34,140
down to what physics can actually tell

746
00:27:39,649 --> 00:27:36,960
us and physics is not in the business of

747
00:27:41,210 --> 00:27:39,659
telling us what nature is it's in the

748
00:27:43,250 --> 00:27:41,220
business of telling us how nature

749
00:27:45,590 --> 00:27:43,260
behaves

750
00:27:48,169 --> 00:27:45,600
it makes powerful predictions about the

751
00:27:49,970 --> 00:27:48,179
behavior of nature by modeling it that

752
00:27:52,430 --> 00:27:49,980
have allowed us to transform our

753
00:27:56,930 --> 00:27:52,440
civilization giving us refrigerators

754
00:27:59,149 --> 00:27:56,940
cell phones and robot Rovers on Mars

755
00:28:02,269 --> 00:27:59,159
now reductionistic materialism makes

756
00:28:05,090 --> 00:28:02,279
massive metaphysical assumptions but

757
00:28:07,669 --> 00:28:05,100
often because it still enjoys the role

758
00:28:10,310 --> 00:28:07,679
of being the dominant Paradigm these

759
00:28:13,250 --> 00:28:10,320
assumptions are excused or forgotten

760
00:28:16,010 --> 00:28:13,260
altogether again much like religious

761
00:28:18,470 --> 00:28:16,020
Dogma in previous human eras

762
00:28:20,450 --> 00:28:18,480
so when you think back uh to when the

763
00:28:23,029 --> 00:28:20,460
church kind of Ruled the Land in the

764
00:28:25,610 --> 00:28:23,039
time of Christendom the world view was

765
00:28:27,950 --> 00:28:25,620
christ-centered kind of perspective

766
00:28:29,750 --> 00:28:27,960
theologically and just in terms of

767
00:28:33,169 --> 00:28:29,760
society there was a marriage between

768
00:28:34,850 --> 00:28:33,179
church and state and for a long long

769
00:28:36,769 --> 00:28:34,860
time it wasn't even questioned it was

770
00:28:38,810 --> 00:28:36,779
just assumed that was the case

771
00:28:41,390 --> 00:28:38,820
now I've often talked about on the

772
00:28:43,850 --> 00:28:41,400
podcast we tend to pendulum swing as a

773
00:28:47,169 --> 00:28:43,860
culture as a civilization so we went

774
00:28:49,250 --> 00:28:47,179
from that to saying all that stuff is

775
00:28:51,169 --> 00:28:49,260
gobbledygoop you know there is no

776
00:28:53,269 --> 00:28:51,179
subjective spiritual realm there's

777
00:28:55,909 --> 00:28:53,279
nothing like that all we have is hard

778
00:28:57,950 --> 00:28:55,919
matter and we're just going to reject

779
00:29:01,549 --> 00:28:57,960
all the rest and and now move into this

780
00:29:03,830 --> 00:29:01,559
new domain and because we've transformed

781
00:29:05,330 --> 00:29:03,840
our civilization when you think about in

782
00:29:07,789 --> 00:29:05,340
the last hundred years going from horse

783
00:29:09,710 --> 00:29:07,799
and Buggies to having spacecraft and

784
00:29:12,110 --> 00:29:09,720
whatnot and the internet and all the

785
00:29:13,630 --> 00:29:12,120
things we have the the marvels of the

786
00:29:17,029 --> 00:29:13,640
modern world

787
00:29:18,830 --> 00:29:17,039
we have given to these scientists and

788
00:29:21,169 --> 00:29:18,840
these assumptions these meta physical

789
00:29:23,870 --> 00:29:21,179
assumptions the benefit of the doubt

790
00:29:25,130 --> 00:29:23,880
we've assumed that if they can if they

791
00:29:27,230 --> 00:29:25,140
have been able to transform our

792
00:29:29,210 --> 00:29:27,240
civilization they must know what they're

793
00:29:30,889 --> 00:29:29,220
talking about but sometimes when you

794
00:29:33,169 --> 00:29:30,899
actually talk to a physicist or someone

795
00:29:35,090 --> 00:29:33,179
who actually adopts physicalism without

796
00:29:36,830 --> 00:29:35,100
really being aware of it they don't even

797
00:29:38,029 --> 00:29:36,840
know how to defend it really and they

798
00:29:40,310 --> 00:29:38,039
aren't even aware of some of the

799
00:29:42,649 --> 00:29:40,320
challenges that physicalism is coming

800
00:29:44,570 --> 00:29:42,659
under and I would say that it's very

801
00:29:46,310 --> 00:29:44,580
clear there's a lot of challenges to it

802
00:29:49,250 --> 00:29:46,320
to the point where it's actually not

803
00:29:50,810 --> 00:29:49,260
tenable at all which again opens up all

804
00:29:53,149 --> 00:29:50,820
sorts of questions

805
00:29:56,149 --> 00:29:53,159
now I made a tweet on Twitter about this

806
00:29:58,909 --> 00:29:56,159
kind of topic uh recently where I said

807
00:30:01,130 --> 00:29:58,919
the term Woo is usually used in a

808
00:30:04,010 --> 00:30:01,140
pejorative way to describe Notions that

809
00:30:06,169 --> 00:30:04,020
are speculative and untestable

810
00:30:08,510 --> 00:30:06,179
eventually Notions within physicalism

811
00:30:10,909 --> 00:30:08,520
will be considered woo because it will

812
00:30:14,870 --> 00:30:10,919
be widely understood that it is they

813
00:30:16,850 --> 00:30:14,880
that rely on untestable abstractions

814
00:30:18,889 --> 00:30:16,860
now I've already mentioned Bernardo

815
00:30:22,490 --> 00:30:18,899
Castro I now want to talk about Donald

816
00:30:24,590 --> 00:30:22,500
Hoffman and as it turns out there are

817
00:30:26,389 --> 00:30:24,600
several theorists in different fields of

818
00:30:27,769 --> 00:30:26,399
inquiry that have come to similar

819
00:30:29,630 --> 00:30:27,779
positions even though they work in

820
00:30:32,090 --> 00:30:29,640
different disciplines and that's

821
00:30:33,710 --> 00:30:32,100
particularly interesting Donald Hoffman

822
00:30:35,029 --> 00:30:33,720
for those of you don't know is a

823
00:30:38,029 --> 00:30:35,039
professor at the University of

824
00:30:40,730 --> 00:30:38,039
California Irvine and Hoffman argues

825
00:30:44,149 --> 00:30:40,740
that natural selection is necessarily

826
00:30:46,310 --> 00:30:44,159
directed towards Fitness payoffs and

827
00:30:48,590 --> 00:30:46,320
that organisms develop internal models

828
00:30:51,350 --> 00:30:48,600
of reality that increase these Fitness

829
00:30:53,870 --> 00:30:51,360
payoffs this means that organisms

830
00:30:56,269 --> 00:30:53,880
develop a perception of the world that

831
00:30:58,250 --> 00:30:56,279
is directed towards Fitness and not

832
00:31:01,669 --> 00:30:58,260
reality

833
00:31:04,130 --> 00:31:01,679
he says quote indeed there is no need to

834
00:31:07,070 --> 00:31:04,140
posit any physical object or a

835
00:31:08,990 --> 00:31:07,080
space-time that exists when no one

836
00:31:11,090 --> 00:31:09,000
observes

837
00:31:13,730 --> 00:31:11,100
space and time themselves are simply the

838
00:31:16,370 --> 00:31:13,740
format of our interface

839
00:31:18,889 --> 00:31:16,380
and physical objects are icons that we

840
00:31:21,409 --> 00:31:18,899
create on the Fly

841
00:31:23,149 --> 00:31:21,419
now we all have seen optical illusions

842
00:31:25,070 --> 00:31:23,159
and have been Amazed by how our brain

843
00:31:26,990 --> 00:31:25,080
doesn't seem to get the trick right we

844
00:31:29,870 --> 00:31:27,000
can look at something and we can look at

845
00:31:32,630 --> 00:31:29,880
a cube depicted on a flat piece of paper

846
00:31:34,610 --> 00:31:32,640
and say that's so weird my brain thinks

847
00:31:36,529 --> 00:31:34,620
it's a cube no matter what I try if I

848
00:31:38,269 --> 00:31:36,539
try not to see it I can't and there's

849
00:31:40,190 --> 00:31:38,279
even some situations where you can look

850
00:31:41,750 --> 00:31:40,200
at a cube and it looks like a certain

851
00:31:43,789 --> 00:31:41,760
angle you look away and you look back

852
00:31:45,409 --> 00:31:43,799
and your brain re-renders the cube and

853
00:31:46,669 --> 00:31:45,419
you see it differently on the page than

854
00:31:48,889 --> 00:31:46,679
you did before

855
00:31:50,930 --> 00:31:48,899
what Hoffman is seeing is that we're

856
00:31:53,450 --> 00:31:50,940
doing that all the time

857
00:31:55,850 --> 00:31:53,460
we're doing it right now here that all

858
00:31:58,610 --> 00:31:55,860
of this is just an interface that we're

859
00:32:01,430 --> 00:31:58,620
rendering on the Fly we do it so quickly

860
00:32:02,870 --> 00:32:01,440
and so seamlessly that we convince

861
00:32:05,750 --> 00:32:02,880
ourselves that we're actually seeing a

862
00:32:08,029 --> 00:32:05,760
reality there uh right now he would

863
00:32:10,190 --> 00:32:08,039
argue for me there's nothing behind my

864
00:32:12,529 --> 00:32:10,200
head it's only when I look that it

865
00:32:15,769 --> 00:32:12,539
actually renders that's the point

866
00:32:18,010 --> 00:32:15,779
so the takeaway here is that it misses

867
00:32:21,350 --> 00:32:18,020
the point to question whether or not

868
00:32:24,830 --> 00:32:21,360
experiencer accounts are really real

869
00:32:26,990 --> 00:32:24,840
when the very Arena we live within our

870
00:32:29,510 --> 00:32:27,000
daily waking lives is according to this

871
00:32:32,090 --> 00:32:29,520
hypothesis backed by mathematical

872
00:32:34,610 --> 00:32:32,100
theorems no less suggests that what we

873
00:32:37,130 --> 00:32:34,620
experience as reality is actually better

874
00:32:39,529 --> 00:32:37,140
described as an abstraction as nothing

875
00:32:42,169 --> 00:32:39,539
more than a virtual reality

876
00:32:44,990 --> 00:32:42,179
now there is evidence from evolutionary

877
00:32:47,330 --> 00:32:45,000
game theory that demonstrates this

878
00:32:49,970 --> 00:32:47,340
basically what you can do is you can run

879
00:32:53,330 --> 00:32:49,980
these simulations and you can say okay

880
00:32:55,370 --> 00:32:53,340
take a hundred organisms and let some of

881
00:32:58,310 --> 00:32:55,380
them see reality as it really is whereas

882
00:33:01,430 --> 00:32:58,320
let other ones develop shortcuts icons

883
00:33:03,710 --> 00:33:01,440
like a folder on your desktop on your

884
00:33:06,710 --> 00:33:03,720
computer and which ones Will Survive

885
00:33:09,649 --> 00:33:06,720
because it's a dog eat dog kind of world

886
00:33:11,230 --> 00:33:09,659
in evolution and what happens is every

887
00:33:14,149 --> 00:33:11,240
single time you run that simulation

888
00:33:17,450 --> 00:33:14,159
those that see more of reality will be

889
00:33:20,570 --> 00:33:17,460
driven quickly swiftly to Extinction

890
00:33:22,610 --> 00:33:20,580
so de facto because of that all of us

891
00:33:25,250 --> 00:33:22,620
that are in this room today have

892
00:33:28,190 --> 00:33:25,260
ancestors who develop the shortcuts who

893
00:33:29,630 --> 00:33:28,200
develop the icons in the interface and

894
00:33:30,950 --> 00:33:29,640
that that's what we actually see of

895
00:33:37,250 --> 00:33:30,960
reality

896
00:33:39,289 --> 00:33:37,260
like this shirt my brain doesn't really

897
00:33:42,649 --> 00:33:39,299
exist that's just the way it manifests

898
00:33:44,570 --> 00:33:42,659
for us when you look at a brain scan for

899
00:33:46,430 --> 00:33:44,580
instance the notion is that's a

900
00:33:49,070 --> 00:33:46,440
correlation of something really going on

901
00:33:51,230 --> 00:33:49,080
reality but the brain itself is just

902
00:33:54,350 --> 00:33:51,240
what we see it's what we render

903
00:33:57,169 --> 00:33:54,360
now we do see a correlation again if you

904
00:33:58,909 --> 00:33:57,179
poke my brain you might see things in

905
00:34:01,370 --> 00:33:58,919
the scan that show you you're doing

906
00:34:03,169 --> 00:34:01,380
Gammage and I may experience that damage

907
00:34:06,769 --> 00:34:03,179
so there's a there's a correlation there

908
00:34:09,230 --> 00:34:06,779
but causation is the issue

909
00:34:12,109 --> 00:34:09,240
so when I read another quote from

910
00:34:13,790 --> 00:34:12,119
Hoffman physics and evolution point to

911
00:34:15,889 --> 00:34:13,800
the same conclusion

912
00:34:18,409 --> 00:34:15,899
space time and objects are not

913
00:34:21,409 --> 00:34:18,419
foundational something else is more

914
00:34:22,190 --> 00:34:21,419
fundamental and space-time emerges from

915
00:34:24,589 --> 00:34:22,200
it

916
00:34:26,869 --> 00:34:24,599
so this is key and I now want to bring

917
00:34:28,790 --> 00:34:26,879
in a couple other examples from other

918
00:34:31,369 --> 00:34:28,800
fields of inquiry Neuroscience

919
00:34:35,389 --> 00:34:31,379
specifically and physics

920
00:34:37,970 --> 00:34:35,399
now Nema arkani himmed is a teacher at

921
00:34:40,369 --> 00:34:37,980
Princeton New Jersey and he's done some

922
00:34:42,470 --> 00:34:40,379
remarkable work on cutting-edge physics

923
00:34:44,450 --> 00:34:42,480
and looking Beyond space-time and you

924
00:34:46,730 --> 00:34:44,460
can actually take the entire semester

925
00:34:47,690 --> 00:34:46,740
course from his physics class and I

926
00:34:49,490 --> 00:34:47,700
actually did that because I really

927
00:34:51,230 --> 00:34:49,500
wanted to wrap my head around this

928
00:34:53,149 --> 00:34:51,240
and this is what he says about

929
00:34:54,889 --> 00:34:53,159
space-time this is not someone who's

930
00:34:56,810 --> 00:34:54,899
interested in the UFO phenomenon I have

931
00:34:58,670 --> 00:34:56,820
no idea if he's interested at all he's

932
00:34:59,990 --> 00:34:58,680
not interested in anomalous phenomena of

933
00:35:02,030 --> 00:35:00,000
any kind or ghosts or anything

934
00:35:04,250 --> 00:35:02,040
near-death experiences he's talking

935
00:35:08,030 --> 00:35:04,260
about as a just a Hardline physicist

936
00:35:11,210 --> 00:35:08,040
this is what he sees he says quote

937
00:35:13,970 --> 00:35:11,220
space time is doomed there is no such

938
00:35:16,190 --> 00:35:13,980
thing as space-time fundamentally

939
00:35:17,690 --> 00:35:16,200
in the underlying description of the law

940
00:35:20,510 --> 00:35:17,700
of physics

941
00:35:22,790 --> 00:35:20,520
now what he's getting at here is that

942
00:35:25,430 --> 00:35:22,800
we might experience an approximation

943
00:35:27,530 --> 00:35:25,440
that we call space-time but it's a

944
00:35:28,490 --> 00:35:27,540
projection of some deeper structure of

945
00:35:30,410 --> 00:35:28,500
reality

946
00:35:32,390 --> 00:35:30,420
and for those people who want to say

947
00:35:35,150 --> 00:35:32,400
well just let's let's rely on Quantum

948
00:35:37,130 --> 00:35:35,160
States then that doesn't work either his

949
00:35:40,010 --> 00:35:37,140
point is that there must be a deeper

950
00:35:42,710 --> 00:35:40,020
structure from which both quantum theory

951
00:35:44,690 --> 00:35:42,720
and space-time emerge

952
00:35:45,829 --> 00:35:44,700
so already when we think about the

953
00:35:47,690 --> 00:35:45,839
others and the way they're able to

954
00:35:50,089 --> 00:35:47,700
manipulate our reality which again is

955
00:35:52,370 --> 00:35:50,099
more like a projection right space and

956
00:35:53,930 --> 00:35:52,380
time is a projection

957
00:35:56,870 --> 00:35:53,940
they are working on the source code

958
00:35:58,609 --> 00:35:56,880
behind space-time they again could be

959
00:36:01,310 --> 00:35:58,619
millions or billions of years more

960
00:36:02,870 --> 00:36:01,320
advanced than us if we already with our

961
00:36:05,030 --> 00:36:02,880
Cutting Edge physics we're recognizing

962
00:36:07,190 --> 00:36:05,040
that there's a structure deeper than

963
00:36:09,530 --> 00:36:07,200
that then it's not surprising that they

964
00:36:12,829 --> 00:36:09,540
would get that as well

965
00:36:15,530 --> 00:36:12,839
so reality is not spatial temporal at

966
00:36:18,470 --> 00:36:15,540
all that's the implication here again

967
00:36:20,930 --> 00:36:18,480
that's just what we experience Einstein

968
00:36:23,870 --> 00:36:20,940
said time and space are modes by which

969
00:36:25,010 --> 00:36:23,880
we think and not conditions in which we

970
00:36:27,230 --> 00:36:25,020
live

971
00:36:29,290 --> 00:36:27,240
now one of the classes I really enjoyed

972
00:36:31,310 --> 00:36:29,300
when I was studying Psychology was

973
00:36:34,849 --> 00:36:31,320
neuro-linguistics and this talks about

974
00:36:36,290 --> 00:36:34,859
how we use ways we think to develop our

975
00:36:38,930 --> 00:36:36,300
language and then our language

976
00:36:40,550 --> 00:36:38,940
determines the ways we can think and so

977
00:36:42,829 --> 00:36:40,560
there's challenges even with our notion

978
00:36:44,390 --> 00:36:42,839
of space-time because we formed our

979
00:36:46,310 --> 00:36:44,400
language around it so we talk about

980
00:36:49,130 --> 00:36:46,320
things like space and time as if they're

981
00:36:51,470 --> 00:36:49,140
absolute when they're not and so you'll

982
00:36:53,870 --> 00:36:51,480
have people postulate questions like

983
00:36:56,329 --> 00:36:53,880
what happened before the Big Bang

984
00:36:58,550 --> 00:36:56,339
and the point is that's an incoherent

985
00:37:01,069 --> 00:36:58,560
question actually we have no notion of

986
00:37:03,170 --> 00:37:01,079
what time is before the Big Bang so to

987
00:37:05,030 --> 00:37:03,180
ask the question it makes no sense from

988
00:37:06,710 --> 00:37:05,040
a physics point of view but again our

989
00:37:08,270 --> 00:37:06,720
language doesn't prevent us from asking

990
00:37:11,030 --> 00:37:08,280
that

991
00:37:13,190 --> 00:37:11,040
now Hoffman is actually fairly confident

992
00:37:15,410 --> 00:37:13,200
that we will be able to contact

993
00:37:18,109 --> 00:37:15,420
intelligence just beyond space-time

994
00:37:19,970 --> 00:37:18,119
which again is more like our interface

995
00:37:22,670 --> 00:37:19,980
because what he says is when you think

996
00:37:25,550 --> 00:37:22,680
about the Fermi Paradox right which was

997
00:37:27,829 --> 00:37:25,560
put forth to explain or or postulate why

998
00:37:30,470 --> 00:37:27,839
is it that with our notion of there

999
00:37:34,250 --> 00:37:30,480
being so many galaxies in an immense

1000
00:37:36,410 --> 00:37:34,260
vast Cosmos and even if most planets are

1001
00:37:38,329 --> 00:37:36,420
not capable of sustaining life there

1002
00:37:39,710 --> 00:37:38,339
should be plenty of Goldilocks planets

1003
00:37:42,530 --> 00:37:39,720
even if they're the exception to the

1004
00:37:45,109 --> 00:37:42,540
rule for life to be everywhere and

1005
00:37:47,210 --> 00:37:45,119
because certain planets have been around

1006
00:37:49,550 --> 00:37:47,220
for much longer than others you know

1007
00:37:51,410 --> 00:37:49,560
civilizations should have been developed

1008
00:37:54,410 --> 00:37:51,420
by now much more than ours why are we

1009
00:37:56,990 --> 00:37:54,420
not finding them and what Hoffman is

1010
00:37:58,910 --> 00:37:57,000
saying is that it's because we're

1011
00:38:02,390 --> 00:37:58,920
looking in precisely the wrong place

1012
00:38:04,250 --> 00:38:02,400
space time again is our interface served

1013
00:38:05,510 --> 00:38:04,260
up by the process of evolution and

1014
00:38:08,750 --> 00:38:05,520
that's not where we're going to find

1015
00:38:11,150 --> 00:38:08,760
them but he does believe that if we can

1016
00:38:14,030 --> 00:38:11,160
poke through sort of bust through that

1017
00:38:15,770 --> 00:38:14,040
interface we will find that reality is

1018
00:38:17,930 --> 00:38:15,780
teeming with life we've just been

1019
00:38:20,569 --> 00:38:17,940
looking in the wrong place

1020
00:38:22,390 --> 00:38:20,579
so what I'm suggesting here along the

1021
00:38:26,990 --> 00:38:22,400
same lines of people like Hoffman

1022
00:38:29,390 --> 00:38:27,000
Bernardo Castro and Nima akani Hamed is

1023
00:38:32,810 --> 00:38:29,400
that reality is more like an interplay

1024
00:38:35,150 --> 00:38:32,820
of fields of mandation that you have at

1025
00:38:38,510 --> 00:38:35,160
the root of reality kind of mind stuff

1026
00:38:40,250 --> 00:38:38,520
that it you knock on it feels real I

1027
00:38:42,050 --> 00:38:40,260
don't know about you but I've had

1028
00:38:44,810 --> 00:38:42,060
experiences in lucid dreams where I've

1029
00:38:47,569 --> 00:38:44,820
had extremely Vivid lucid dreams but

1030
00:38:49,370 --> 00:38:47,579
I've been able to actually get down on

1031
00:38:52,069 --> 00:38:49,380
the ground and smell a blade of grass

1032
00:38:53,990 --> 00:38:52,079
and it smells completely real I remember

1033
00:38:56,150 --> 00:38:54,000
talking to someone that seemed familiar

1034
00:38:58,370 --> 00:38:56,160
though when I woke up I have no idea who

1035
00:39:00,829 --> 00:38:58,380
they were but I went up and I rubbed my

1036
00:39:03,290 --> 00:39:00,839
hand against this red brick building and

1037
00:39:05,329 --> 00:39:03,300
I felt tearing on my skin

1038
00:39:07,790 --> 00:39:05,339
so the granularity of that experience

1039
00:39:09,710 --> 00:39:07,800
told me that this was no different than

1040
00:39:12,290 --> 00:39:09,720
our waking experience and just because

1041
00:39:14,450 --> 00:39:12,300
it's consistent in terms of rendering

1042
00:39:16,430 --> 00:39:14,460
physicality doesn't mean it's ultimately

1043
00:39:18,650 --> 00:39:16,440
real

1044
00:39:21,530 --> 00:39:18,660
all right so there's the close now with

1045
00:39:23,390 --> 00:39:21,540
a couple thoughts the way forward in

1046
00:39:26,329 --> 00:39:23,400
terms of field research

1047
00:39:28,490 --> 00:39:26,339
I think again Evolution has served up

1048
00:39:30,589 --> 00:39:28,500
this default mode that we usually walk

1049
00:39:32,870 --> 00:39:30,599
around in I'm suggesting there's

1050
00:39:34,790 --> 00:39:32,880
actually some other ways Beyond just

1051
00:39:37,310 --> 00:39:34,800
external technology where we can sort of

1052
00:39:40,750 --> 00:39:37,320
punch through that interface meditation

1053
00:39:42,710 --> 00:39:40,760
is one lucid dreaming astral projection

1054
00:39:45,370 --> 00:39:42,720
psychedelic Journeys

1055
00:39:48,470 --> 00:39:45,380
and even with ce5 and Heist

1056
00:39:50,810 --> 00:39:48,480
human-initiated contact experiences even

1057
00:39:52,069 --> 00:39:50,820
there meditation is a key point and

1058
00:39:53,270 --> 00:39:52,079
what's very interesting is when you

1059
00:39:56,510 --> 00:39:53,280
listen to some of the historical

1060
00:39:58,690 --> 00:39:56,520
documents they'll say that some

1061
00:40:01,609 --> 00:39:58,700
experiencers who had a lot of contact

1062
00:40:04,130 --> 00:40:01,619
were actually basically taught or

1063
00:40:07,730 --> 00:40:04,140
encouraged to learn meditation protocols

1064
00:40:09,829 --> 00:40:07,740
as teenagers or adolescents so it's as

1065
00:40:11,329 --> 00:40:09,839
if these others know that this is a way

1066
00:40:14,270 --> 00:40:11,339
for us to punch through our usual

1067
00:40:16,550 --> 00:40:14,280
default mode and tap into larger reality

1068
00:40:19,310 --> 00:40:16,560
and some of these Prime experiences were

1069
00:40:21,349 --> 00:40:19,320
actually encouraged in these ways when

1070
00:40:22,970 --> 00:40:21,359
they were young

1071
00:40:24,349 --> 00:40:22,980
now I'd like to leave you with this

1072
00:40:26,750 --> 00:40:24,359
concluding thought

1073
00:40:29,390 --> 00:40:26,760
this is a gathering made up of not just

1074
00:40:31,130 --> 00:40:29,400
experiencers and their supporters but

1075
00:40:33,950 --> 00:40:31,140
also pioneers

1076
00:40:36,109 --> 00:40:33,960
some of us are pioneers by choice others

1077
00:40:39,829 --> 00:40:36,119
seemingly by happenstance

1078
00:40:41,810 --> 00:40:39,839
regardless we as Pioneers are often

1079
00:40:44,329 --> 00:40:41,820
presently seen as out of touch with

1080
00:40:47,810 --> 00:40:44,339
reality accused of believing in a

1081
00:40:50,030 --> 00:40:47,820
Fantastical counter factual Notions

1082
00:40:52,970 --> 00:40:50,040
but I would remind us all that this is

1083
00:40:55,790 --> 00:40:52,980
always the case for Pioneers this is

1084
00:40:58,849 --> 00:40:55,800
always the way they are seen just prior

1085
00:41:01,550 --> 00:40:58,859
to a sea change in understanding and to

1086
00:41:03,890 --> 00:41:01,560
be clear that sea change is coming

1087
00:41:06,710 --> 00:41:03,900
as we've just outlined the evidence is

1088
00:41:10,069 --> 00:41:06,720
already in arising from independent but

1089
00:41:12,470 --> 00:41:10,079
converging lines and Fields of inquiry

1090
00:41:15,589 --> 00:41:12,480
fields of inquiry that align with but

1091
00:41:17,930 --> 00:41:15,599
stand distinct from what many of us have

1092
00:41:20,750 --> 00:41:17,940
seen and experienced in what we

1093
00:41:22,490 --> 00:41:20,760
colloquially call the phenomenon

1094
00:41:24,650 --> 00:41:22,500
and at that note I'll leave you with a

1095
00:41:27,829 --> 00:41:24,660
famous quote by German philosopher

1096
00:41:31,250 --> 00:41:27,839
Arthur schopenhauer who said that quote

1097
00:41:33,589 --> 00:41:31,260
all truth passes through three stages

1098
00:41:37,190 --> 00:41:33,599
first it is ridiculed

1099
00:41:40,130 --> 00:41:37,200
second it is violently opposed

1100
00:41:42,349 --> 00:41:40,140
third it is accepted as being

1101
00:41:44,350 --> 00:41:42,359
self-evident